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Bonds Indicted?

Willie_tiny by SF Pete on

From the ABC news website: FEDERAL GRAND JURY INDICTS BASEBALL SLUGGER BARRY BONDS ON PERJURY AND OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CHARGES, AP REPORTS

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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Re: Bonds Indicted?
Yeah, I just saw a blurb on Rotoworld about this.

by xanthan on Nov 15, 2007 2:18 PM PST   0 recs

It's everywhere...
even the Wall Street Journal has it front and center, with the same graphic they use to announce epidemics and catastrophes.
I'll take the freight train, Bengie Molina.

by Brother Bummer on Nov 15, 2007 2:24 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
So whats the potential penalty for that?  Will Bonds go the route of I. Lewis Libby, and receive a presidential pardon?  Obviously, something of great national security and importance is of harsher penalty than whether or not Bonds smeared drugs on his a$$.

by Chods on Nov 15, 2007 2:25 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Word.

Time to start donating to the Bush Presidential Library Barry!

by Nathan on Nov 15, 2007 4:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Chronicle has it too: Bonds Indicted for Perjury

This would suggest his career is done - no team will touch him now.

by eugene on Nov 15, 2007 2:26 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Well this is bizarre:
"During the 2001 season he broke Mark McGwire's single-season home run crown, and by 2006, he'd passed Babe Ruth to move into second-place among the sport's most prolific power hitters. He will soon in all likelihood surpass Aaron's career mark of 755 homers."....

What the hell?!? did Paul Elias just wake up from a year long coma?

by Cookyman on Nov 15, 2007 2:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I think he had a 30 second deadline to write that article.  All other websites have two sentences dedicated to the story.
Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Nov 15, 2007 2:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Yeah, but it's not like he just mixed up the numbers... this was obviously copied from an older article.

For shame Paul Elias.

by Cookyman on Nov 15, 2007 2:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
"During the criminal investigation, evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing substances for Bonds and other athletes," the indictment reads.

That could mean no hall of fame.

by ResDog on Nov 15, 2007 2:34 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Well, I may be reading this too finely, but it seems to say to me that Bonds and other athletes collectively tested positive for steroids and other performance enhancing substances.  It doesn't necessarily mean that Bonds himself tested positive for steroids.  

He might have tested positive for some kind of steroid precursor.  Or he might have tested positive for any other performance enhancing drug (amphetamines?).

In any event, I think he's still HOF bound, but maybe not first ballot.  The indictment only accuses him of steroid use beginning in 2001.  Even if you assign some ridiculous premium to the effect of steroids (e.g., half of his home runs were steroid-caused), his numbers should be HOF material.

by War on Nov 15, 2007 3:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Move over OJ... let the new media circus begin.

Wonder if the Giants had some inkling this was coming.

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Nov 15, 2007 2:36 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I'll bet that they did.  

Do we get a first round draft pick from the Department of Justice for Type A compensation as it came before the signing deadline?

by slcgiant on Nov 15, 2007 2:38 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Well I hope we can finally stop hearing all the bitching and moaning from people who wanted the Giants to sign Bonds for next year.  Nice timing by Magowan and Sabes, almost too good.
Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Nov 15, 2007 2:39 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
If you ask me PMG certainly knew this was coming
Frandsen for 3B (til July 08)

by NeifiChicken on Nov 15, 2007 2:41 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I think when I suggested this back when they announced he wouldn't be re-signed, I was mocked.

I remember a lot of talk about "There won't be an indcictment, otherwise they would have done it by now."

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 3:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
That's not fair. We mock you for your eye-popping truths and your jaw-dropping falsehoods.

It's a blanket mocking policy.

by Moggeee on Nov 15, 2007 3:41 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I will not tolerate you, or anyone else here, mocking my blanket!
See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 3:45 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Your blanket has a stupid doo-doo face!
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Nov 15, 2007 10:21 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

PREPARE YOURSELVES
For at least a month of "does he deserve to be in the hall of fame" on ESPN.
Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 15, 2007 2:48 PM PST   0 recs

Re: PREPARE YOURSELVES
I will be avoiding ESPN at all costs through the weekend.

by KCE on Nov 15, 2007 2:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: PREPARE YOURSELVES
I wonder if Scott Ostler waffles again and goes back to his previous statement that Bonds shouldn't be in the HoF.  Hah loser.
Thank God that's over.

by southcitysteve on Nov 15, 2007 2:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Just remember the old saying -- you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.  

by War on Nov 15, 2007 2:51 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
And there's no sandwich hammier than this one.

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Nov 15, 2007 2:58 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
yeah, but you can indict a ham sandwich on the first try. this is (at least) the 2nd grand jury to go after Bonds.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 15, 2007 3:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
And at least we got to enjoy the home run record for a half a year.

Although, if the trial ends up being thrown out or if they rule in Bonds' favor, it may be helpful to his legacy. There will still be naysayers but at least he would have overcome a jury.

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 15, 2007 2:53 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Copy of the indictment:  http://www.ktvu.com/download/2007/1115/14608977.pdf
If you root for the Dodgers, the terrorists have already won.

by SF Pete on Nov 15, 2007 2:54 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Am I reading this wrong, or does it seem that most of his answers were along the lines of not KNOWINGLY using steroids? It seems to me that if, say, he did fail a test, then he would be found guilty of taking steroids, not necessarily KNOWINGLY taking steroids. I'm no lawyer, but it seems like trying to prove knowledge or intent would be far more difficult.
Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 15, 2007 3:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Unless, of course, they get someone to testify that they gave him steroids and he knew of it, like Anderson or a coworker of his. Then it would probably be easier, I would guess.
Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 15, 2007 3:26 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
that's exactly right. to show intent to lie, they'll have to show that Bonds had knowledge of what he was taking. Evidence would be conversations he had with people (most likely Anderson) who knew what the substances were and that fact came up during the conversations.

Basically, Anderson needs to testify that "I told Barry it was an anabolic steroid or HGH that he was putting in/on his body."

I seriously doubt Anderson will do that. He'll stay in jail forever, rather than testify against Bonds.

Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 15, 2007 3:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
ESPN just announced that a judge has ordered anderson to be released.
See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 3:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
crap.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 15, 2007 3:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
It's over, man.  Best thing Barry can hope for now is a plea deal to avoid jail time.

by Skaldheim on Nov 15, 2007 3:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
That's only because the grand jury has issued its indictment, so there's no point to holding him in jail anymore.

Anderson will likely refuse to testify at trial and will go to jail again to avoid contempt charges.  Or maybe (gasp), he'll testify and nothing will be harmful to Bonds after all.  The perjury charges are pretty specific.

by War on Nov 15, 2007 4:05 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Look at the indictment, it all appears to center around Anderson.  I don't know how they can prove all those to be lies without Anderson's testimony.
See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 4:11 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Anderson's lawyer was quoted as saying that Anderson will still not cooperate in this upcoming trial.
BRING ME ALEX RODRIGUEZ!!

by rxmeister on Nov 15, 2007 6:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Yeah, but lawyers are also famous for saying "my client looks forward to his day in court and proving his innocence" right before they cop a plea.
See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 16, 2007 10:04 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
It wouldn't surprise me to see Barry cop a plea if it means avoiding jail time. His career is over, his records will probably be expunged, and he isn't going to Cooperstown. He might as well do whatever he can to stay out of prison.
BRING ME ANDRUW JONES!!!

by rxmeister on Nov 16, 2007 11:29 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
That's it for Bonds.  You can bet that Selig will suspend him, citing the precedents in the NFL.  It may not stick, but...he's done now.

by Skaldheim on Nov 15, 2007 3:09 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
He's already treated by fans around the league like he's the one and only player to have ever used performance-enhancing drugs.  I'm thinking Selig see's this as an opportunity to passively turn Bonds into the scapegoat for the entire league.  Keep Bonds out of the HOF, and he gets to throw dirt on the entire issue by making it look like the league has some form of integrity left.

by ololo3 on Nov 15, 2007 7:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
This is good news, now there is no temptation for Magowan to bring him back for 2008.

by Cainer on Nov 15, 2007 3:14 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
-1
Vizquel leads by a higher level of example. --BS (Brian Sabean)

by Woody Wins on Nov 15, 2007 3:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Woody posts the number of sportswriters, per minute, changing their Bonds-For-the-Hall vote.

by Moggeee on Nov 15, 2007 3:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
good news? You're a giants fan? Really?

by MikeyJ on Nov 15, 2007 4:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Welcome to the Barry Bonds post Career Circus ladies and gentlemen.  
Word.

by alech on Nov 15, 2007 3:15 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I wonder if they have a legitimate test showing him testing positive for steroids.  
Zealously advocating for Nate the Great since 2007.

by orangeandblackattack on Nov 15, 2007 3:20 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
The indictment says "evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing substances or Bonds and other professional athletes."

So, yes, he tested positive.  Baseball Prospectus is saying it was part of the 2003 post-CBA agreement testing that was supposed to remain secret.

by KCE on Nov 15, 2007 3:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I missed a key word in that quote - should have for Bonds, not or Bonds.

by KCE on Nov 15, 2007 3:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
the indictment says "tests" plural

but it seems he failed one test

and it couldnt be for "the cream or the clear" for those were both alledgedly undetectable

i say he gets off

by bacci40 on Nov 15, 2007 8:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
According to the indictment (and this was also in Game of Shadows and the Chronicle Articles) they have copies of test results from tests that either Anderson, Balco, or both had done that they claim were of Barry's urine.  They do not claim to have the urine.  They also do not specify what evidance they have that the tests were actually perfromed on Barry's urine and that the tests were not contaminated somewhere in the chain of custody.

by giantsrainman on Nov 15, 2007 4:04 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
If Anderson (or another agent that actually delivered PEDs to him) testifies against him, I think he will be found guilty.  Otherwise, I think he will not be convicted.

I am not a lawyer.

by zenbitz on Nov 15, 2007 3:24 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
but you did stay at a Holiday Inn once, didn't you?

by wilriv21 on Nov 15, 2007 4:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Oh, yay
On the front page of espn.com they have a little video about this, in which they get 'espn investigative reporter Mark Fainaru-Wada' on the phone for some expert investigative reporting. Seems like espn picked a good time to hire that ass hole... Maybe a little too good? Muahahahaha

by stress on Nov 15, 2007 3:28 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Cool...we now have his home address.  Nice of them to print that.  Reading through all that testimony I without any evidence to back it up was pretty odd.

I don't think he will be found guilty by a jury.  Probably won't matter seeing the court of public opinion ruled against him ages ago.

by positiveuphemism on Nov 15, 2007 3:29 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I thought it was a little odd that wasn't redacted, but what do I know from criminal procedure.

BB

All those Giants fans down in Giants land love that Crazy Crab!

by BlackDougal on Nov 15, 2007 4:22 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Well, at least I know on what street corner to open up my new Torches Direct outlet.  Though we'll likely stiff competition from Torches Torches Torches and Bob's Inflatable Mobs.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Nov 15, 2007 4:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
+face
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Nov 15, 2007 4:28 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
not our headache any more
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Nov 15, 2007 3:39 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
They just announced that Anderson was released from prison. So he either flipped on Barry or they found somebody else to flip.
"I'd take pleasure in gutting you boy" Oh and ignore the spelling. I do.....

by someguynamedg on Nov 15, 2007 3:44 PM PST   0 recs

Got to love America...
Here's the results of the ESPN poll after I took them:

1) Does Barry Bonds' indictment on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice change your opinion of him as a player?

69.5% No
30.5% Yes

7) If Bonds is found guilty, is he still a Hall of Famer?

58.3% No
41.7% Yes

Either voters honestly don't think he's a Hall of Famer without steroids, or they're complete morons. Actually, either way their morons.

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Nov 15, 2007 3:44 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
For the first question, some who said their opinion hasn't changed alreay thought he was guilty, so the indictment doesn't change anything.
See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 3:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
Then 30.5% of people are complete morons. The indictment has nothing directly to do with steroid use. 30.5% of people are essentially saying that Barry Bonds is a worse baseball player because he's a liar.

I'm seeing a major disconnect. I guess lying is a performance enhancer. Or something.

People sre stupid. I relly fucking hate people.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 15, 2007 6:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
Howie, in this case I think the disconnect is on your end. The 30.5% aren't saying they think less of him as a player because he lied about where he buys his shirts, or something else trivial. The charges are directly related to steroid use. The government thinks it can prove he was lying when he said "I didn't take steroids", and you could only prove that if you can prove he did take steroids. So give the morons a little more credit.
SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Nov 16, 2007 9:44 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
Yes.

I also think the people's whose opinions have changed might include those who have, until now, believed him when he said he didn't or said he didn't know he had.

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 16, 2007 10:54 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
Then that 30.5% is still misunderstanding the question. It's about whether he KNEW he was taking steroids or not. Not whether he was taking them or not. He all but admitted that he took them by testifying that he didn't knowingly take them.

Oh well. It's not like you're wrong. The people who voted that way either were either voting based on a simple misconception that this was about steroid use, or were voting because they don't like Bonds. It doesn't really matter what the poll actually meant in those cases.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 16, 2007 11:42 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
There's nothing to indicate they misunderstood the question, which was, does the indictment change your opinion of him as a player?

There are lots of people out there who would like to believe that Bonds was clean; I'm one of them. For me, the indictment is just one more piece of "plausible deniability" being taken away. He still might be innocent, but the odds of it just got slightly longer, in my non-scientific estimation. Before, one could say "if he had juiced, they'd have indicted him by now" and dismiss it at that. Not any more.

So, I don't think it requires any misconception at all for 30.5% of those polled to be more convinced today than they were yesterday that Bonds juiced and did it knowingly.

The bottom line is it is about steroid use, even though that's not how the charges read.

SJ Giants, 2007 Cal League champs! Couldn't have done it without the All-Father.

by EliminateMe on Nov 16, 2007 12:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
That's perfectly fair and makes sense.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Nov 16, 2007 12:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Got to love America...
The conclusion you reach, that nearly 60% of voters think that Bonds wouldn't have had HOF numbers without steroids, is not legitimate.  I think that if you took a poll asking, "Had Bonds never used, do you believe he would have compiled numbers worthy for the Hall of Fame?" you'd have probably had 100% answer in the affirmative.  These people are saying that his HOF numbers are invalidated by steroid use...not that steroid use created a HOF career.

I don't think that it would be unreasonable for one to take the stance that Bonds is clearly, on talent alone, worthy of a HOF induction, but that his steroid use makes him invalid for the Hall.  

by biff pocoroba on Nov 16, 2007 10:51 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Statistics
And as to these numbers...we all know that you can get a poll to say just about anything you'd like, based on the particular phrasing you use.

I read recently that scientists estimate that approximately 50% of the public is below average intelligence.

by biff pocoroba on Nov 16, 2007 10:54 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

The Glass is Not Half Full
The bad news is: Only 10% of the public is above average intelligence.

The other 40% is in a multi-purpose room, taking the GED.

by Moggeee on Nov 16, 2007 11:18 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Anderson released according to ESPN.

Did he finally roll over on Bonds?

See Barack Obama at the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium Nov. 14th! Visit https://donate.barackobama.com/sanfran for details.

by Goofus on Nov 15, 2007 3:46 PM PST   0 recs

Scandalous bedfellows
He rolled over on him, mostly because they shared the same mocking blanket.

by Moggeee on Nov 15, 2007 3:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Finally.
Now that's the kinda slashfic I'm talkin' about.
"When Jackson Williams thinks of how many times Madison Bumgarner has tried to kill Tyler Walker..."

by multiphasic on Nov 15, 2007 3:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Not necessarily... if the grand jury ended, then he isn't withholding testimony any more.
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

by shikantaza on Nov 15, 2007 3:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
I ain't no fair-weather Bonds supporter. I hope he beats the rap. I think there's a good chance he will. I hope his jury is filled with Giants season ticket holders.

After reading the indictment, I have a couple of comments.

  1. What a tremendous waste of time and energy and money by the government. Yes, perjury and obstruction of justice charges are serious matters, but this all happened 4 years ago and I seriously doubt the justice system has suffered for it. The system lost more credibility when the confidential grand jury secrets were illegally leaked to and then published by those SF Comical douchebags so they could get rich and famous trading on Barry's name. And it took them how many grand juries to get an indictment?
  2. The testimony in which Bonds allegedly perjured himself is pretty vague. Some of the questions are compound. Even if Bonds took a bunch of steroids, there's no evidence that he knew. That's a very subjective charge and difficult to prove, especially without any direct testimony that Bonds was told what he was taking. There is plausible deniability there.
  3. An indictment means that there is enough evidence to proceed with a trial, i.e., there's probable cause. It doesn't mean that there is enough evidence to prove BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Bonds perjured himself and obstructed justice. I'm not a criminal attorney, but it seems that the case is pretty weak. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move the trial...to Los Angeles!
  4. I hate to say it, but Barry Bonds baseball career is over. I was hoping to see him play for another team, but now no team will sign him while he's under indictment and the process will probably go on for the next year (Bonds won't plea.) He's just that much more radioactive. At his age, he can't take a whole season off and have a realistic expectation of coming back to play.
  5. Selig might move to suspend him, but unless he's on a team, he might just wait and see.
  6. He's still the best baseball player I've ever seen.
Bonds stands alone.

by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 15, 2007 3:53 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
+1 to #6. And that's how I will continue to remember him.

by KCE on Nov 15, 2007 3:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Bonds Indicted?
Heh...

The White House quickly weighed in on the indictment. President Bush is a former owner of the Texas Rangers.

"The president is very disappointed to hear this," Bush spokesman T