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Mock Roster Proposal

Grant_tiny by Grant on in News

Now that Aaron Rowand is a Giant, here are some other moves to make:

Tim Lincecum for Alex Rios

then

Matt Cain for Melky Cabrera

then

Noah Lowry/Jonathan Sanchez for Coco Crisp

then

sign Mike Cameron to a 3-year/$40M deal.

then

sign Corey Patterson to a 3-year/$30M deal

The result would be this lineup:

Dave Roberts - CF/1B
Melky Cabrera - CF/2B
Alex Rios - CF/RF
Aaron Rowand - CF to rule them all
Randy Winn - CF/3B
Mike Cameron - CF/C
Coco Crisp - CF/SS
Corey Patterson - CF/LF

IT WOULD BE A LINEUP OF CENTER FIELDERS!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Two things would make the Aaron Rowand signing okay:

  1. His power doesn't drop back to the 12-homer Rowand of 2005 or 2006.
  2. The Giants now try and move Randy Winn in a deal that helps solve the Giants' corner infielder problem.
The first point scares the hell out of me. In fact, I'm going to just pretend that Rowand was on a humanitarian mission for those two seasons. And the second point is pretty danged unlikely.

Meet the new Sabean, same as the old Sabean.

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Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Terrible. A bad day at work gets even worse.

by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2007 1:37 PM PST   0 recs

YESSS ANOTHER CF!!
Take THAT, Ned Colletti!
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 12, 2007 1:37 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Speed and defense.  Speed and defense.

by ResDog on Dec 12, 2007 1:37 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
LOL, I am laughing hysterically at this signing. I knew it would happen when I heard that we were having a serious go at him. LOL everybody at work is looking at me. LOL
Angel Joseph is just that a guardian angel.

by gianator on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
And they'd still have Rajai as the 9th CF. Don't' forget the importance of depth.

by mxmob33 on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
We need that 9th CF to DH in interleague games.

by Scottsdale on Dec 12, 2007 1:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
And don't forget those darned double-headers...
If I owned this place and Hell, I'd rent this out and live in Hell...

by ilselu1 on Dec 12, 2007 2:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Adopted!
I'd just like to repeat that I've adopted our newest center fielder. Let's hope he works out better than the previous adoptee (Todd Linden).

At least he'll be fun to watch... at least he'll be fun to watch... try to breathe... sigh...

Proud member of the Adopt-a-Giant program (Aaron Rowand)

by antinous on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Adopted!
I don't understand this whole adoption thing. Is it firstys, or is there a draft or a waiver claim? Do you have sign papers?

If it's firstys, I adopt our 1B of the future, our 2008 #5 pick.

Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance

by tellusfrank on Dec 12, 2007 10:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adopted!
It is firsties, but the player/personnel has to at least be drafted/signed/hired before the sweepstakes start. Then you make it official by going to the McWiki and entering it according to form.

Your general responsibilities as adopter are defending your adoptee when they start to get canned on. Mayor of 311 was Sabean's adopter (since given him up, I believe). He had the hardest job.

Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 11:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I was not going to have drinks at the pub tonight.  After this news, I am.

Real Men of Genius -- Here's to you, Mr. Multiple-Center-Fielder-Signing-General-Manaaaaager!

by Skaldheim on Dec 12, 2007 1:39 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Now THAT is funny.
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Dec 12, 2007 1:44 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I am seriously considering taking up alcoholism until Sabean gets canned.

by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
done and done. and i mean done.
Dodgers fans eat their young.

by redhornet78 on Dec 12, 2007 2:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

feel good hit of next summer....
nicotine valium vicodin marijuana extasy and alcohol
"cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I've decided to take my feelings, bury them deep inside and never speak of them again.

by Dan from NM on Dec 12, 2007 1:40 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Grant, the only thing with that is that Corey Patterson cannot play a good LF.  Lets trade Bumgarner and some of the great looking youngins to the dodgers for Pierre.

by Big Daddy J on Dec 12, 2007 1:41 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
How about Bumgarner, Frandsen, Velez & Ort?

by Scottsdale on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Bring back D-Lew!!!
Like a lesbian couple that's just a little too angry, I'm still waiting for my chance at adoption.

by dangjackson on Dec 12, 2007 1:43 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Oh, you know we're not going move Winn. Instead we're going to trade off as many of our not-bad young outfielders as possible. For veteran relievers.

by Evan on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
D-Lew is too young--How bout Dave Henderson

by Big Daddy J on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
HOW COULD THAT LINEUP LOSE???
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Official Song of the 2008 Giants: John Fogerty's "Centerfield" (to be played every half-inning at the Big Phone).
Lon Simmons' adopted dad.

by Kitspool on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I worked for the Padres this last year. And that's actually the song they play for 2 hours up until the game. I want to die just thinking of it.

by MikeyJ on Dec 12, 2007 2:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

I'm okay with it.
If you're going to have depth in a position at outfield, it's better to have it in CF.  Because at least you can move those players to left or right without a dropoff in defense.  It seems that true corner outfielders never make really good center fielders.  I've heard that Dave Roberts is actually more comfortable at left than he is at center.

Also, I think that this signing makes it very obvious that Winn, Roberts, or Lewis are likely candidates to be packaged away in another deal.  I'd be VERY surprised (even taking into account Sabean's track record) that we're going to start the season with this many outfielders.

The other pros to this trade....

We didn't have to trade Lincecum or Cain to get him.

It probably also means that Matsui is off the table.  I thought that was a bad idea to take him on.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 1:45 PM PST   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
Hey, maybe Matsui can still play at first.
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
No, I believe Roberts is now the 1b

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:18 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

The reverse is also true
It seems that CF's never make it to be a good hitting corner outfielder (unless your name is Sizemore)

by awesomer on Dec 12, 2007 1:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: The reverse is also true
Ellis Burks?
McCovey Chronicles was better when mine was the lowest IQ on the board.

by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:09 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
Yes, I see it that way too.  This is the least disastrous of the ideas that Brian's been cooking up.

by achiappanza on Dec 12, 2007 2:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
Doesn't Rowand make more sense in left field?
lincecum, cain, lowry, sanchez for jeff kent

by lincysgiants on Dec 12, 2007 3:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
Rowand has a good arm so he makes the most sense in center or right field.  The throw from left to third is short which is why the bad arms go there.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 4:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: I'm okay with it.
Less disastrous than 4 yrs of Fukudome?

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Absolutely yes
Fukudome is a left handed hitter who has only played in Japan and is slightly older (though admittedly not by much).  We all know that Japanese power hitters drop off once they come to the MLB and the fact that he's also a lefty would make him pretty much a doubles only guy.  Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that Rowand is probably a better fielder.

The only difference is we gave Rowand one more year.  The dollar per year is the same.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 4:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Absolutely yes
Yes to the above, and of course to have gotten Fukudome, Sabean would likely have had to out-bid the Cubs, not just match it.

by achiappanza on Dec 12, 2007 5:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Absolutely yes
But we wouldn't be losing a draft pick if we had signed Fukudome, if I'm not mistaken.
McCovey Chronicles was better when mine was the lowest IQ on the board.

by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Absolutely yes
We didn't lose our 5th overall pick for this one.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 9:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Sabean is an idiot, plain and simple and thats being kind. Unless there is a trade on hand to trade either Winn or Roberts this makes absolutely no sense at all. Here comes another Contract albatross around the Giants necks. Unbelieveable!!! Once again Sabean outbids himself. After all these years apprently thats the only thing Sabean excels in...Pitiful
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading

by Mordy From Monsey on Dec 12, 2007 1:46 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Even *if* he trades both Winn and Roberts, this is still a bad deal.  Winn, for all his flaws, is good enough to be a below-market player.  Roberts is basically the same bat as Rowand (assuming last year was Rowand's career year, and he rounds back into previous form) with worse defense.

So, this would be trading a market-value CF platoon (Roberts is a overpriced) *and* two draft picks for an above-market CF with great defense.

Idiot.

by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 1:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rowand is a better defensive outfielder than Roberts.  Especially at center.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 2:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: That's what he said
Ahh.  So he did.  You'll have to forgive me, I was practicing responding to posts in a mirror.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 2:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rowand's career slg is about 90 points higher and he's 5 years younger.  Let's not let hyperbole get in the way of facts.
McCovey Chronicles was better when mine was the lowest IQ on the board.

by Goofus on Dec 12, 2007 8:17 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I didn't suggest signing Roberts for five years, either.  Me, I'll give Rowand a slugging advantage over Roberts -- a small one.  Use road stats to elide the difference between hitting at home in bandboxes, like Rowand has done, versus fair parks, as Roberts has.

    2005-2007 road slugging
Rowand        .438
Roberts        .414

If you think those 25 points in slugging make up for Roberts 15-point OBP advantage, you may well be right.  Results in comparable ballparks indicate, however, that over the last three years Rowand and Roberts have been very much the same batter.

by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 9:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

That's a somewhat ridiculous comparison
Since Roberts never seems to have more than 100 abs a year against lefties.  Of course his numbers are going to be more comparable since he's a career platoon player who isn't in the lineup when the hitting situation isn't in his favor.

by Sigualicious on Dec 12, 2007 11:31 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: That's a somewhat ridiculous comparison
    ABs    2005-2007 road slugging
Rowand    788    .438
Roberts    679    .414

100 extra ABs are not something to sniff at, so I'll rephrase: Rowand's bat is the same as a platoon of Dave Roberts and Rajai Davis.

Rowand is better than Roberts and Davis, but not by much.  Davis's slugging vs lefties over the same three years?  An adequate .394, with a .377 OBP.

Davis plays pretty good defense, too.

by wcw on Dec 13, 2007 6:53 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
All i want in my outfield is Schierholtz dammit, lets see what what what at lesat one of our non pitching prospects can do.

Winn
Rowand
Schierholtz

Back up: Davis

Trade Roberts for corn flakes and milk to be named later.

Id be okay with trading Winn as well and keeping a Roberts/Davis platoon.

Just please, do something about this. My blood pressure cant take it and i'm only 23 dammit.

by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
lol, milk to be named later.  I'm hoping it's 2%.
Adopted Giant: Travis Denker. Good?

by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 1:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I'll settle for anything not curdled.
All your signature are belong to us.

by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 1:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
They cannot trade Winn now.  I mean, Winn = Rowand (ex Rowand hits RH).  Their '07 road numbers:
Winn:       292/356/462/818   10 HRs
Rowand:   299/368/475/843   10 HRs (with more games in the smaller parks in the East)

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:25 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I forgot to finish that thought.  Winn = Rowand, Rowand = Winn, how can you trade one, how do you know who you are talking about, or who the other GM is talking about?
  I do now foresee a Cain for A Jones trade.

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:27 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
All well and good until Roberts approaches the plate...
Rockies juggernaut rolls o...ver , dead. NL West TempestTeapot CASE IN POINT!

by victor frankenstein on Dec 12, 2007 7:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I'm not surprised by the Rowand signing... in fact, it's almost like a metaphor for Sabean's recent, CF-signin' career.

Like Rowand, Sabean has chased after an object with full, unbridled force. The object could, possibly, have been attained, if the correct path was taken to it. However, the smart route was not taken, with Sabean and Rowand bloody and broken, face first into a wall.

In Rowand's case, it was a ball. In Sabean's case, it's a World Series Ring.

Angel Villalona: A younger, better hitting Pedro Feliz. Rajai Davis: A younger, better everything Dave Roberts.

by AngelintheInfield on Dec 12, 2007 1:47 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Brian Sabean: GAMER.
All your signature are belong to us.

by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 2:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
What about the possibility that the White Sox (who just lost out on Rowand and Fukodome) might want to trade for a CF?  Could we get a 3B from them?  Please?
My fantasy team could beat up your fantasy team.

by Coach Kline on Dec 12, 2007 1:49 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Thus far we have replaced Bonds with Riwand and resigned an aging SS....Can't wait to buy those seaon tickets...Who wants to bet that the name  "Rowand " will pop up on the Mitchell report tomorrow?
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading

by Mordy From Monsey on Dec 12, 2007 1:49 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
They really need to trade Roberts or Winn to ensure that Schierholtz plays everyday in RF.

If we end up with a Roberts-Rowand-Winn outfield, I'll be pissed.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 1:52 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
BUT WE NEED THE VETERAN SAVVY!@!@@!
Steve Kline: How okay is he, really? I would say he is pretty okay.

by groug on Dec 12, 2007 1:54 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Roberts-Rowand-Winn outfield
God, don't even say that out loud.

I really hope this signing means that the Giants will unload some of these outfielders, and I don't mean the young ones.    

by Widget on Dec 12, 2007 2:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
JP, it is obvious Schierholtz has no future with the Giants unless he can catch.  You know, wear the tools of ignorance.  It is more likely he will be packaged in a trade for J Pierre

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:30 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Agreed. After years of following these kids in the minors--Kev, Freddie, Nate, Ort, I kinda feel sorry for them that they're with the Giants. If Nate and Kev don't get a chance to start next year (what more do they have to do?), here's wishin' they get traded to another team so that they can get their legitimate shots.  
Uribe to Thompson to Clark: Don't tinker ever with chance

by tellusfrank on Dec 12, 2007 11:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
For those who have a BP subscription, they did a player profile on Rowand near the beginning of the season, after Rowand had kicked off the season with an awesome start.

The sum conclusion (based mostly off BABIP) was that Rowand was going to come back down to earth, and that the power wasn't going to last. Well, the power lasted, although his numbers did come down to something more resembling his very solid 2004 season.

So, which Rowand are we getting? The .270/.320/.420 from his worse years, or the .310/.370/.515 from last year? If the former, then yeah, this stinks. If the latter, I don't hate this move. Yeah, I hate the money, and the years, but that production from CF, even regressed to a .290/.340/.470 isn't horrible.

That's the best I can come up with. If Rowand doesn't suck, this move isn't horrible. Good lord, but that is a pathetic excuse for an argument.

Snap judgement: the only reason I don't hate this move is that it means Lincecum stays. Addition by non-subtraction?

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Dec 12, 2007 1:55 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Zips projects .276/.339/.444, and that's in the Phillies bandbox.  I wouldn't be surprised by .260/.320/.400.

Dave Roberts, in other words, with better defense.

A stellar use of $20 million a year.

by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 2:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Yeah, Mel, his numbers have to fall playing 110 games in the big parks in the NL West.  His on the road numbers last year, which are skewed slightly in favor of the smaller NL East paarks are:  299/368/475/843   w/ 10 HRs  - his HRs were hit mostly in that band box in Philly.  I think Sabean has no concept of park effects when looking at a player

by allfrank on Dec 12, 2007 4:34 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

More of the same
Last year about this time, I wrote a diary entitled Filling the holes we don't have. This year is following the exact same pattern, except center field is the new first base.

If we can swing trades for both Roberts and Winn - or at least one of them, plus getting something useful for Lewis and/or Davis - then this will make some sense. In the meantime, though, it looks an awful lot like the thinking that led to last year's four-first-basemen lineup.

All your signature are belong to us.

by EliminateMe on Dec 12, 2007 1:57 PM PST   0 recs

Re: More of the same
filling the holes we dont have? why does that sound sexual?

by Giant Voodoo on Dec 12, 2007 2:29 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
When Ussmariner gave the Giants an F as an organization, I thought it was harsh.  I think Rowand proves that Sabean only knows how to sign overvalued/not-that-great free agents for way too many years, and the Giants deserve that F.
Adopted Giant: Travis Denker. Good?

by scotterduder on Dec 12, 2007 1:59 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Nah, the organization gets a C.

F for Sabean and all who sail with him.
B for Tidrow and pitchers.
B for marketing and media.

Works out to about a C in my book.

In other words -- the Cubs of the freaking West Coast.

by wcw on Dec 12, 2007 2:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
The only positive to this signing is that the Giants website earlier reported that the deal was close to Hunter's deal with the Angels (5/90), but Fox Sports and MLBTraderumors reports it's a 5/60.  We saved 30 million.... that's a plus, right?  I like Rowand, but I agree that we didn't really need him and his power will probably go back to 10-15 homers, as I mentioned in an earlier post, essentially making him not worth 12 mil per year.  What are your thoughts on a Randy Winn or Dave Roberts for Joe Crede deal?  Not sure whether that would be considered fair on either side, just an idea to lose an OF, as they could use one, and pick up Crede cheap, as they are looking to deal him.

by jwirt19 on Dec 12, 2007 2:03 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Like the Crede idea.  

by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:08 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Rumor has it  that Crede's back's going to be strong.

by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:10 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
How about: Winn+Roberts+Sanchez/Lowry

For: Rolen+Duncan

Nevermind... pipedream and I knew it the instant I was done typing it, but maybe that would net us a decent 1B/3B combo.  New starting OF is Schierholtz Rowand and Lewis.  Hell, this general idea just makes too much sense for Sabean, even if the Cards would bite.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Dec 12, 2007 5:59 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
ZIPS projects Rowand to hit .277/.340/.427 (97 OPS+) next year; .292/.364/.455 (111 OPS+) optimistic projection.

lol.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 2:03 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Nattowear | comics | Durham? I hardly know 'im!

by Natto on Dec 12, 2007 3:12 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
BEAUTIFUL.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Dec 12, 2007 3:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I like your followthrough.
Dave Righetti: You Know You Want It. / Also, my blog. For writers.

by howtheyscored on Dec 12, 2007 3:13 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
Reality check:  Rowand's "power" played in the band boxes - The Cell and Citizens Bank.  

by Glasscock on Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Mock Roster Proposal
I'm rolling on the floor reading MLB's Fantasy Impact of the Rowland deal;

"Rowand is a prime candidate to drop off after posting big numbers in his walk year with the Phillies. Thanks in part to the offensive-friendly environment of Citizens Bank Park, where he batted .319 with a .937 OPS, the 30-year-old finished with career highs in homers (27), RBIs (89) and runs (105) last season. Now, he'll be playing half his games at AT&T Park, a much tougher venue for hitters. Rowand will probably top off at around 20 jacks, with subsequent drops in RBIs and runs in 2008. Leaving a potent Phillies lineup for one that's still under post-Barry Bonds reconstruction doesn't help matters, either. Throw in his decreased activity on the basepaths, and Rowand is looking like an average mixed-league outfielder at this point."

If I owned this place and Hell, I'd rent this out and live in Hell...

by ilselu1 on Dec 12, 2007 2:04 PM PST   0 recs