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Streakin'

Grant_tiny by Grant on in News

It's only about 100 days until the Winter Meetings, and here we are without a rebuilding plan. What else is there to talk about? An actual winning streak? Bah. Just because they're going to come around with the frequency of a comet for the next few years, doesn't mean winning streaks are automatically newsworthy.

There will be time for about 400 variations on this theme in the offseason, but here's a first crack at a Rebuilding Manifesto:

  1. Other than Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, anyone can be traded. But in an offseason where Livan Hernandez and a broken Bartolo Colon might be the best free agent starters, the Giants had better get some insane value for Noah Lowry. No matter how wary Lowry's declining K/BB might make you, he's still likely to be one of baseball's better bets for cost certainty for the next couple of seasons, and giving him away for a single position-player prospect would be a mistake, with only a few exceptions.
  2. The Giants have a glut of interesting young outfielders. Fred Lewis, Nate Schierholtz, and Rajai Davis should all get significant playing time. Dan Ortmeier, Clay Timpner, John Bowker, Brian Horwitz, and Eugenio Velez aren't a horrible batch of fall back plans. Out of those eight players, the Giants wouldn't be nuts to expect two capable players who could be part of a rebuilding team.
  3. This means the biggest expenditure for the offseason shouldn't be a free agent, it should be to make Dave Roberts and Randy Winn go away. Maybe a mostly-free Roberts or Winn could bring back a young player to throw on the pile, but that would be only a side benefit.
  4. The free agent market of 2007/2008 is an inbox filled with offers of hidden Nigerian fortune. Stay away. The only players worth any kind of pursuit are outfielders, and they all come with red flags, so refer back to points #2 and 3. This includes guys with needed power, like Andruw Jones and Kosuke Fukudome. Mike Lowell on a two-year deal -- maybe a three-year deal -- is the only plausible upgrade worth pursuing.
  5. Not only will Barry Bonds be the best available hitter, his two-days-on, two-days-off schedule would be perfect for a rebuilding team looking to break in a gaggle of young outfielders while trying to score runs for a young pitching staff. Plus, he's my roster blankie. I'm just not ready to give up my blankie.
  6. The presence of Kevin Franchise should not prevent the Giants from acquiring another young second baseman if the opportunity were to arise. If Howie Kendrick is part of a Lowry deal...sorry, Kev. If Howie Long is part of a minor deal, he might also sneak ahead of Frandsen on the depth chart.
  7. The Giants aren't going to get Alex Rodriguez. Even if they could, it would be insane for a franchise to commit $50M to Barry Zito and Alex Rodriguez for several seasons.
  8. The preferred order of how infield spots should be filled, if possible: a. Blocked prospects via trade (Asdrubal Cabrera, Steven Pearce), b. Out-of-favor prospects (Andy Marte, Dallas McPherson) c. Unwanted players with unwanted contracts via trade (Pat Burrell, Richie Sexson), d. Busted players young enough to hope for 80% of their past production (Brad Wilkerson, Nick Johnson).
This is just a start. Add or take away points as you see fit. And if you read #1 and immediately thought, "Well, what if the Mets want to give up Jose Reyes or David Wright for Cain? Huh? There is NO SUCH THING AS UNTRADEABLE!", you're a literalist ninny.

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Re: Streakin'
  1. hell yes
  2. yep
  3. preach on, brother
  4. lol
  5. think he'll take a significant pay cut? me neither. :(
  6. no comment
  7. amen
  8. shrug
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2007 2:30 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Whether or not he takes a pay cut isn't really relevant in that the team shouldn't really pursue any free agents.  Re-signing bonds for a year won't hurt them in the short or long term, as they shouldn't be spending that money elsewhere anyhow.

Suppose they sign Bonds, there should be enough headroom for eating salary of incoming trade players.  With Morris' money already freed, it'd probably cover most (if not any) of those expenses for a year or two.  This is not including the possible departures of Vizquel, Feliz, Klesko, and Winn/Roberts (if they're traded).  Doesn't Mattheny finally come off the books too?

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2007 2:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

huh?
of course it's relevant. if Bonds agrees to play for less money then Sabean has more budget to offer other players. He's due to make about $16M this year, and if he agreed to take $9 or $10M (which he won't do, ever) to play half the time, that would mean Sabes would have another $6 or $7M to spread around. That's a significant amount of bread any way you look at it.
Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2007 3:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: huh?
Spread around to whom?  As I mentioned, the team should be going into this offseason with the pretense that most of the "top-tier" free agents aren't worth the money they'll command, so they should just leave those offers off the table.  Okay, so say they need to sign a couple of fillers, but the fillers would primarily be replacing guys who are leaving this year, who should be releasing more money than the "filler" should be commanding.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2007 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: huh?
I guess I'm confused. Are you suggesting that the Giants spend less than $90.5M on payroll next year?

I'm not saying NOT to sign Barry if he insists on $15M next year -- far from it. But you can't argue that an extra $6M in freed-up payroll money isn't a good thing.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2007 3:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: huh?
Oh, it can be a good thing.  That assumes that ownership won't just pocket that extra money, though.  Suppose they do get Bonds to give in and sign for only $10M, it's not like they should take that six (to ten) million and spend it on some long-term deal reminiscent of another Dave Roberts (or Bengie Molina, even if he has been fairly solid).  They should "save" it and hopefully put it toward the eventual signings of the players that put them over the top (or extending the current players they have that figure into future plans, like Tim Lincecum).

All I'm saying is that re-signing (or even overpaying) for Bonds next year shouldn't hurt the team in the short or long-term.  This is because (in my opinion), the team shouldn't be looking for quick fixes and really shouldn't be signing 30-somethings to long-term deals.

I'm not suggesting they spend less on payroll next year than they have this year just for the sake of spending less payroll.  I'm saying their overall payroll figure should be smaller if they go on with a plan that includes increased playtime for guys like Davis, Ortmeier, Lewis and Frandsen.  If they stick with that kind of a plan, the payroll will shrink as a side-effect of it.

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2007 3:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

gotcha
i think i'm pickin up what you're puttin' down now. youth movement = cheap, so payroll should come in under the $90.5M they spent this year. and i'm certainly not suggesting they go out and find ways to spend another $6M just to do it.

They should give it to me.

Billy Hayes: Nine more big-league plate appearances than you.

by delorean on Aug 20, 2007 3:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: gotcha
I'm not so sure the Giants have as much money as people think freed up after this season. There's more than a few players getting significant raises. Barry Zito and Randy Winn go up around 4 million dollars each, Bengie Molina goes up 2 million dollars, Aurilia and Durham 1 million each, Roberts 1.5 million, and I'm sure there are others. The Giants payroll will pretty much be where it is now, WITHOUT significant upgrades, unless they can find takers for a couple of these stiffs.
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2007 4:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: gotcha
If they can move Winn they should have almost 50 now that morris is gone

by SabeanSupporter on Aug 21, 2007 10:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: huh?
The comment "Spread around to whom?" is not only gramatically correct, it is one of the best four-word partial posts I have seen anywhere on the recent fates of the Giants.

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 7:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: huh?
"if he agreed to take $9 or $10M (which he won't do, ever) to play half the time, that would mean Sabes would have another $6 or $7M to spread around. That's a significant amount of bread any way you look at it."

Actually, the Giants already owe BLB about $8M in 2008.

He's got $5.8M coming from 2007 salary and about $2M in bonus for PA's etc.

So his salary would be 2008 $? + $8M

I need a Sig ? Damn It !

by nvsfg on Aug 20, 2007 4:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Just on comment on blocked prospects
With Josh Barfield struggling more mightily than even Durham this year, OPS+ of 60, AsCab may no longer be blocked.

Also, Nick Johnson while a great player when healthy, is NOT healthy. He is having complications with the leg he broke last season.

by rfloh on Aug 20, 2007 2:37 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Just on comment on blocked prospects
Yeah word just came this weekend that Nick Johnson's rehab hit a setback and he's undergone another surgery on the leg and is now officially out for the season.

by Roger on Aug 20, 2007 2:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes. Despite the 30-odd diaries insisting we should sign A-Rod or Fukodome or Tori Hunter, it seems to escape attention just how bad the Giants offense is - and how there is no quick fix. Bonds on a one year deal, with CF and RF split amongsty a Lewis/Davis/Nate/ (with Ortemier as a 5th OF) combo is the way to go.

- Lowry - I agree, but if the Royals offer Mark Teahan and an arm for Lowry, that's exactly the kind of deal we ought to look at - getting a comparable low cost-player in return. Trading Lowry for 3 prospects does nothing now, but I do worry that Lowry will pitch the same, and end up with a 4.75 ERA next year.

Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 20, 2007 2:38 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
"Just  how bad the Giants offense is -- and how there is no quick fix."  Here is another guy who gets it.  Well done!

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 7:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Interesting... Fooch at NinersNation made a similar e-mail joke no more than a week ago...

I wish I had a "hack" image for Grant, tehhackmaster.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2007 2:45 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I type my jokes with one flap down.

Goofus to make "typing with one hand"-joke in 3...2...

by Grant on Aug 20, 2007 2:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

1!
So this one-handed typist walks into a bar...ah screw it.
Bold Prediction: Klesko will finish the 2007 season with at least 20 HRs. (OPS+ is 129 as of 7/1/07)

by Goofus on Aug 20, 2007 4:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Fyi,
I'd deal Cain for Jose Reyes, but not for David Wright. ;) I imagine Mets fans might feel differently, but Wright is going to be a 1b in a few years.
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 20, 2007 2:50 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
First base, you say...?
Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2007 2:53 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I thought Wright had improved his D immensely this season. His UZR and RZR are both pretty good this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 20, 2007 2:55 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I'll check again (and may well be wrong), but my impression was that the trend says otherwise (dial's and Dewan's numbers previously). He is doing great in the UZR's, and I may be off base on that. That being said, I think I'd still rather have Cain. ;)
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.

by Aadik on Aug 21, 2007 10:16 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
6' 215 isn't automatically 1B material, and I've heard good things about his glove this season.  

by fwoty oz on Aug 20, 2007 2:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Isn't Wright generally regarded as a very athletic third baseman?

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2007 2:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Living in NY, I see David Wright play third on a daily basis, and I see no reason whatsoever to think he is going to have to become a first baseman. His defense is fine over there.
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2007 4:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Everything I have seen and heard on the subject would back you up here, Mark.

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 7:55 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Agreed.  The guy who is a definite future first baseman Miguel Cabrera.  The guy is almost up to 260.

by SabeanSupporter on Aug 21, 2007 10:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
1. Yeah, while we'll all have a soft spot in our hearts for Cain, I don't think he's off limits. I'm not one of the "Well, what if the Mets want to give up Jose Reyes or David Wright for Cain? Huh? There is NO SUCH THING AS UNTRADEABLE!" people, I think that trade offers should be considered for him. Sabean's apparent strategy of "draft young pitchers, trade said young pitchers for hitters" won't work unless we give up a stud pitcher a couple times in order to get some hitters here. I think that Lincecum would be off-limits, as I personally think his all-around stuff is better than Cain's, but I think that we could get a bundle in return for Cain, and Sabean should entertain it.

2-3. Next year's OF should be: Lewis, Schierholtz, Davis, and Ortmeier. We all know we're going next year, and I'm in agreement that the kids are alright.

  1. Dead-on. Why are we all so quick to rid the Giants of Bonds? He's still the best hitter alive and is entertaining as hell to watch. I realize that I didn't include him in the list of OFs above, but I think Grant's idea is perfect of giving him even more time off to implement the kids. Of course, this is all assuming he signs for a 1-year deal at or around $10 million, which is quite unlikely.
  2. Grant gets it. Why doesn't everyone else? A-Rod is an impossibility on this team. We'd have no money left to give to anyone.
Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Aug 20, 2007 2:59 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
As per number 7.  Because it's fun to dream.  And your realitizationizing smashes those dreams.
"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 20, 2007 3:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
definitely with you on the "why not trade cain too" thing.  The question is, after this season, will any other GM be as excited by his 'upside' as folks here seem to be.

I wonder if the time to trade cain was after last season, but we missed the timing as usual.  

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 20, 2007 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
What, because of the record? I'm pretty sure GMs would be jumping all over themselves to acquire a 22 y/o with great stuff and a sub-4 ERA in probably about 200ish innings.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 20, 2007 3:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
His command isn't great.  His record isn't great.  His Ks are declining.  He isn't, you know, winning.  Right now.

I'm not saying Matt doesn't have upside, and doesn't have the chance to be a great pitcher.  

But until we see the return of some actual dominance on his part I wouldn't brand him untouchable.  Not like timmy.

Luck is the residue of design and all that, and Matty's designs this year aren't...er... all that.

"Bri-an Sab-e-an, I hope you're satisfied with what you've done..."

by The Gene Hackman on Aug 20, 2007 3:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
No, I wouldn't label him untouchable either (though I'd rather they not trade him.)

I'm just saying... you seemed to imply in your first post that you didn't think GMs would be interested in acquiring him anymore. And IMO, they definitely would, and would give up a lot for him.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Aug 20, 2007 4:02 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I know I'm really late to this party, but I had to chime in...

So the proposition here is to trade Cain and go into next year with a rotation of Lincecum, Lowry, Zito, Sanchez, and Misch?  Or are we proposing the idea of overpaying another FA pitcher?  Wow, so we not only have no hitting, but we're going to cripple our pitching staff, AND go heavily lefty!  Meanwhile, at least we now have one new bat to shore up our horrid starting lineup.  That's like putting chocolate sauce on a pile of poop.  Sure, it's still shit, but you didn't have the chocolate sauce before!

Final comment: In four August starts, Cain has already struck out more batters (28) than any other month this season, and he's only issued five walks during that span.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Norm MacDonald

by JRPhillips on Aug 21, 2007 2:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Thank you very much for saying what all these guys should be told.  Their out of their freaking minds to think Cain inst as valuable or has as much upside as he once did.  Its absolutely ludicrous. And to automatically write him off as not being as good as Lincecum because he doesn't throw as hard is just as ridiculous.  

by SabeanSupporter on Aug 21, 2007 3:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
The Giants problem in the short run seems to be talent far more than money IMO.  True, I certainly didn't favor the contracts to Barry Zito, Randy Winn and Dave Roberts, which add up to more than $30 million per season, but at least some of those contracts are or will be tradable.

And, yes, the Giants will be hard-pressed to pay enough veterans enough money to solve their offensive problems.

But the real problem is that there is little available, regardless of cost.  The Giants could sign Alex Rodriguez, Torii Hunter and Andruw Jones, and unless that trio and others improved, they would scarcely improve their team OPS (and hence run scoring) unless they also re-sign Barry Bonds.  And we're probably talking $70-$80 million per season for just that trio and Barry.

The biggest reason not to sign Alex Rodriguez would be that he will very likely be an old player before the Giants are once again able to contend.

The Giants needed their hitters not to have below-average seasons, but to have near-career years if they were truly going to contend.  That would have made them a good team instead of an average one.  With many of their hitters having subpar seasons, the Giants have fallen from average to poor.

These days teams either have to be among the very top spenders (see the Yankees and Red Sox) or they need to be able to build at least an inexpensive foundation of young players brought up from within.  Heck, the Dodgers are a team that has fallen as far as fourth this season (I'll bet THEY were glad for the Giants when they fell that far, since falling into the cellar would have been even more embarrassing.) -- and they're a team that not only has spent a high amount of money (although not come close to reaching the Yankees/Red Sox level)AND have an abundance of find young young players.

Follow Tim Lincecum, Angel Villalona and the six players the Giants drafted among the first 51 overall picks this season.  The future of the Giants began with the 2006 entry draft.  Prior to that, they had almost none -- even if they didnt realize it yet.

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 8:06 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I feel like there is only one market that is being remotely underlooked: crappy AL pitchers.

Trade Lowry for hitting, and then acquire several young, but heretofore unsuccessful, pitchers from the AL, and hope a few of them turn into decent starters or relievers (Arroyo, Lilly, Lohse, etc).

Jeremy Affelt, Casey Fossum, Jeff Weaver, Odalis Perez, Bruce Chen are all 30 years old or younger and could likely be had relatively cheaply.

Who dat is? That's just Ortmeier's daddy.

by rotorueter on Aug 20, 2007 3:03 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Is Bruce Chen really under 30 still?  Goodness.
"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 20, 2007 3:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Isn't Affeldt on the Rockies now?
Steve Kline: He's pretty okay!

by groug on Aug 20, 2007 3:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Yep!  And he's a reliever.
Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Aug 20, 2007 3:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Weaver? Good Lord, no. No no no.
Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Aug 20, 2007 3:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Perez: Already sucked with both the Dodgers and the Braves.

Weaver: Already sucked with both the Dodgers and the Cards.

Chen: Already sucked with the Braves, Phillies, Mets, Reds, Expos, and Astros.

Fossum: Sucked with the D-Bags.

Affeldt: 6.20 ERA as a starter for the Rocks last year.

I'd rather start Misch over any of them.  At least he still has the chance to surprise, the others you pretty much overpay.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Norm MacDonald

by JRPhillips on Aug 21, 2007 2:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
I think the OF should look like: Bonds, Nate, Freedy, Rajai, and Ort.

Ort should also get a significant amount of time at first, depending on if we keep Klesko or not. If not, platoon him with Richie perhaps? (i'm not sure here).

If we can't get rid of Durham, maybe let Frandsen try for starting SS? Or just give him the lion's share of 2b...bottom line, pick one of the 2 positions and stick with it.

The above point should show that I clearly have no Idea what to do about the infield. I do think Franny should get regular time at one position, if for no other reason than he's cheap and might improve.

Does that mean we have to resign Pedro or omar to 1 year contracts? I just don't know.

But I am solid on my ideas for outfield and 1b. I havea good feeling about Ort at 1b.

If anyone wants to respond to each of these that knows something about whats available in trades/FA, please do.

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Aug 20, 2007 3:08 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Agreed
Andy, although I share your unfounded good feelings about Ortmeier at 1B, I also have haunting auditory hallucinations of Freddy Fender.
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 20, 2007 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I know who Freddy fender is...
THEREFORE DO NOT SECOND GUESS THE ORT AT 1B!!!!

please? :(

And Boom Goes the Dynamite

by Andy from DC on Aug 20, 2007 3:17 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Agreed
A team with Kevin Frandsen at shortstop and Dan Ortmeier at first base on an everyday basis is a team likely to score few runs -- and hence, not win a lot of games.

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 8:08 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
In particular, back to the subject of blocked players: was anyone else impressed by SS Yunel Escobar when we played the Braves? I'm too lazy to look up his minor league numbers, but he looked good against us. Assuming Renteria comes back healthy, perhaps Atlanta will think it has an abudance of middle infielders and listen to offers of starting pitching. Granted, he's not the slugging 1B we all know we need, but acquiring him would settle SS for several years and allow us to save Vizquel's salary to spend elsewhere, without putting Frandsen or Aurilia at SS next year.

It isn't the first move I'd make, and I'm not sure I'd trade Lowry straight up for him, so I'm not sure who I'd give up (Misch & Sadler?  Sanchez & Chulk?). But it might be a step in the right direction.

And does anybody think we might be able to unload both Roberts and Winn this winter? I really want to believe we could. Somebody help me believe.

Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 20, 2007 3:11 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I thought Escobar looked good.
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2007 3:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

:-O
Yes, but how do you think he played :P

by Jakespaar on Aug 20, 2007 3:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was asking for that
Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Not boring: Emmanuel Burriss. Not facist: THE RETURN OF SF Dugout

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Aug 20, 2007 4:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: I was asking for that
Sure...Blame the victim.
Barry Zito -- Catch Me if You Can.

by E Ticket on Aug 20, 2007 7:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: :-O
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 21, 2007 7:12 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I'd like to unload both, but I don't see it happening.  I'd like to have Roberts playing LF next season, he was at a +16 there according to John Dewan's defensive metrics.  But Roberts and Davis are somewhat redundant.  I just don't know how this is going to work out.
Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Aug 20, 2007 3:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Redundancy: good for NASA, bad for baseball teams.
Your 2012 NL ERA champion: Sergio Romo

by Lyle on Aug 20, 2007 3:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
i think atlanta would prefer to keep escobar and move rentaria...there were rumors around the deadline about rentaria going to the white sox...i would love to have escobar on the giants...i went to all three games in atlanta last week, and was very impressed with his play...but that leads to how about rentaria in sf next year?

by travis j bagdad on Aug 20, 2007 4:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Renteria
Renteria contract from mlb4u.com:

 9M in 2008- + the deal includes an 11M Team Option for 2009 or a 3M buyout - + he receives a 1M bonus if traded- + BOS is responsible for the entire 3M buyout if 2009

So one year 9M or two years 20M. He just turned 32 on August 7 and still is playing well. Could be an option worth looking into since SF needs a SS for 2008 and beyond.

by wilriv21 on Aug 20, 2007 4:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Renteria
After the past few years of Omar, wouldn't having Renteria at short make most of us pull our hair out quite often?

by sfgfan on Aug 20, 2007 4:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Renteria
Is his defense THAT bad?  I recall the 30-error season in Boston, but aside from that I thought he was adequate there.
Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Aug 20, 2007 5:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I would be very surprised if the Giants DIDN'T try to unload both Dave Roberts and Randy Winn this winter.

The Giants could actually man two of their three outfield positions with decent platoons of Rajai Davis/Freddie Lewis and Nate Schierholtz/Dan Ortmeier.  Throw in Barry Bonds, and you've got a decent yet fairly young outfield.  Throw in a younger outfielder taken back in trade for a chip such as Noah Lowry, and you've got a young outfield that could turn out to be at least average.

by sharksrog on Aug 21, 2007 8:11 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Are we rebuilding or not?
Grant's outline looks good to me.  To me, the Giants must actually commit to rebuilding if they are going to do it right.  This would mean more seasons like this one in the next year or two or three.  I hope Giants management understands this and is able to cope with it.  

The only real point I would add to Grant's plan is that if a full budget won't make a good team, then go under budget for a couple of years if we are going to suck anyway.  Say if the Giants can save 20 million a year for two years, that's an extra forty million to spend on contracts or development.  Now that wouldn't mean that the Giants would have 130 million to spend in 2010 because that extra money would have to be stretched out over the life of whatever contracts they sign.

Then again, I can't help but look at the Tigers.....Brandon Inge and Curtis Granderson were the only position players who were home grown on the 2006 world series team.....

"The fact the Giants have 11 free agents concerns Barry." Jeff Borris, last off-season

by thehavenot on Aug 20, 2007 3:13 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I'm a little surprised that everyone wants Bonds to come back. As much as I love the guy, I'm ready for him to move on. This team needs a fresh start, and he deserves a chance to play in a pennant race again.

by Evan on Aug 20, 2007 3:17 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
yeah, I agree. I think people are thinking with their hearts here. Nobody thinks this team will contend next year, so why bring back a 44 year old player?? It's time to cut the ties, tell him thanks for the memories, and let the young players mature without the Bonds circus to distract them.
Randy Messenger says,"We're in Florida this weekend?? Maybe I should have just punched Scott Olsen again!"

by rxmeister on Aug 20, 2007 4:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I also agree with this.  While I LOVE the Giants, I also love Barry.  Let's face it, the Giants will not contend next year, and Barry deserves a chance at a championship.  I can't agree that he us still one if the best jitters un the game, imagine how much better he would be if he didnt have to run around in the outfield.  He could easily hit 40 homers next year for the Angels/Yankees

by 27freethrows on Aug 20, 2007 6:44 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
I can't DISAGREE that he is one of the best HITTERS

Stupid keyboard.

by 27freethrows on Aug 20, 2007 6:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
What if Bonds doesn't want to win a championship for another team, and his only chance to get the one he wants is to sign back and hope a crappy team catches lightning in a bottle?

We're not doing him a favor by letting him try to get a championship for another team if he WANTS to play here.

And if he wants to play here, there is no reasonable business reason not to resign him. There is none. Not a single one. Especially if we can unload Roberts and Winn.

Coming to you by proxy (I adopted: Dave Righetti!)

by howtheyscored on Aug 20, 2007 7:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
He did say that he wants to win a Championship before he retires.  Yes, he's getting old, but I'm pretty sure that senility hasn't yet begun to creep in.  I'm quite sure that he realizes that winning a Championship means playing on another team.

It's been fun.  We all appreciate everything that he's brought to this team and to SFO.  However, we need to part ways if he wants to get a ring before he retires.  I was sad when Willie got traded away (he was & still is my all time favorite Giant).  Likewise, it will be sad to see Barry go. However, I believe it would be best for both parties.  At his age, perhaps a DH role would be best - hopefully any team other than the Yankees (my least favorite AL team).

by Jakespaar on Aug 21, 2007 11:05 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Streakin'
Agree 1000%. 44+Youth=Irrational Number. It's time to retire the number, have some fireworks, and issue the DVD highlights. It's time to let go of the blankie.

by reeky on Aug 21, 2007 8:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My proposal, go ahead and rip off my head . . .
I'd like to acquire Jeff Clement.  If Joe Blanton could fetch Clayton Kershaw and Andy LaRoche (or whatever the rumored players mentioned), Lowry should be able to fetch a king's ransom.

Sabean's worked out a few deals with Bill Bavasi before.  Seattle's looking to unload Richie Sexson's contract, and we all know that his  .209 average is an aberration.  We have extra money from the Matt Morris deal, and we need someone with Sexson's power (plus he's in the last year of his contract).  Seattle takes a good portion of his remaining $14 million ($6 million, perhaps), and we have a power hitter in our lineup.  If the team sinks, we can deal him at the deadline for a few prospects if he's produced like he's capable of.  Jeff Clement is blocked by Kenji Johjima, and I'd like to think he'd be a nice fit here.  Also throw in a young power arm (Mark Lowe, closer kind of pitcher blocked by J.J. Putz), and I'd make the deal.  Hell, I'd throw Kevin Correia in there to help even it out.

Clement's arrival lets us send off Molina and cash to a team like the Mets and get a few prospects in return (Mike Carp, who has had an off year, perhaps Philip Humber as well, who has also had an off year).  Everyone knows Minaya covets Molina, and I honestly think we could get something good in return for him given how weak the catching market is.  Add in the fact that Molina has playoff experience, is on pace for about 93 RBI, and he's Latin, Minaya has to like him a lot.

Thank God I'm not a GM, I'd probably kill the franchise with those two moves alone.

Brian Anderson: converting saves and dominating as best he can.

by Anticon23 on Aug 20, 2007 3:26 PM PDT   0 recs

Re: My proposal, go ahead and rip off my head . .
yeah, the Mets seem to be desperate for a catcher for next year. We should definitely try to pass Bengie off on them.
Matt Cain: He'll save c