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It burns....

Grant_tiny by Grant on in News

The headline: Giants' motto: Without HRs, it's run, run, run

The article: The Giants don't really have a bunch of speed demons, but they're probably going to try and steal a bunch of bases anyways.

What's in the mind of the optimists in Giants Town: The 1985 Cardinals, who only had one hitter with more than twenty homers, but who managed to win 100 games with the help of a great pitching staff and a fast, fast team.

What they're forgetting: That twenty-plus homers was enough to crack the top ten in the 1985 N.L. It's a good idea to start reminiscing about 1985, but not about the Cardinals.

What they're also forgetting: That the Cards had at least one great hitter in Jack Clark. His OPS+ would be the equivalent of a .332/.410/.570 hitter today; in other words, one of the best hitters in the league. Ryan Howard or Albert Pujols, for example.

What they're also, also forgetting: That Willie McGee went goofy on the league, hitting .353/.384/.503 in a season where the league average was .252/.319/.374, and winning the MVP. That's two great seasons in the same lineup.

What they're also, also, also forgetting: That Vince Coleman stole over 100 bases at a high percentage. Dave Roberts and Rajai Davis are fast, but...yeah.

It isn't crazy to think a powerless-yet-speedy team with a fantastic pitching staff can contend. But the Cardinals had good hitters. Yes, they ran around the bases like it was the end of a Benny Hill show, but five of their eight hitters had an on-base percentage above the league average, and they had at least two great hitters in 1985.

So here's my bit of optimism: If Aaron Rowand hits .335/.410/.550, Randy Winn hits .300/.370/.490, Kevin Frandsen hits .330/.380/.440, Ray Durham hits .280/.360/.470, Rajai Davis and Dave Roberts combine to steal 100 bases, Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum are among the league leaders in ERA, and the bullpen combines to be a late-innings force, then, yes, the Giants can also win 100 games.

Also, if Charles Manson is released from prison and starts dating my wife, there's a chance that I'll raise Charles Manson's kid without knowing it. That'd be weird. But it could happen.

I'm excited about the young pitching. I'm excited about the chance that a young hitter or two will exceed expectations. I'm excited that baseball is starting up. I'm not excited about a bad offensive team with mediocre speed trying to steal a bunch of bases and lay down bunts.

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Re: It burns....
I agree, for a team all about speed, the Giants don't have a lot of guys that can legitimately steal a bag. Roberts and Davis, yeah probably but who else?

Randy Winn has been a terrible base stealer for his career. Omar is going to 40 years old. Rowand has never stolen more than 17 bags a year. He's also going to be turning 30 and I've never considered him to have great speed.

This year is going to be interesting but I can't help but shake the feeling that Giants management keeps trying to sell us the "NEW GIANTS" based on a bunch of nonsense.

by xanthan on Feb 18, 2008 2:04 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
With the eternal green light that Roberto Kelly is promising, look to see a lot of WTF caught stealing scenarios.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Feb 18, 2008 2:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Just Imagine.....
the carnage after a game against the Bums with Russell Martin behind the plate for them.

by DrBGiantsfan on Feb 18, 2008 2:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Fred Lewis
Fred Lewis throughout his career has been considered fast but not a great base stealer. I think players without speed can be taught to be excellent base runners and players with speed can be taught to be excellent base stealers. Basically I think with the right coaching Fred Lewis could turn into an adequate base stealer. I don't think 30 bases would be out of order if had fairly regular playing time.

by Sigualicious on Feb 18, 2008 4:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fred Lewis
Just what I want to hear: a player with questionable defense and an unproven bat will focus on learning to steal bases.

Of course, that complaint covers just about every Giant position player.

Fool me seven times, shame on you. Fool me eight or more times, shame on me.

by Bhaakon on Feb 18, 2008 9:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Fred Lewis
Of course, in some of those position players' cases, "unproven" should just read "disproven."
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 9:53 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Like I've said before, a lot of the articles (basically the ones that are not related to Matthew T. Cain and/or Timothy L. Lincecum) that are coming out of Giants camp at the moment are kind of embarrassing and maybe even a bit delusional. And a bit insulting to fans' intelligence; there's a line in that Chron article about "homer-drunk Bonds fans" or something like that. WTF.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Feb 18, 2008 2:04 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
This isn't going to be the fastest, grittiest, warrior spirit-ist, non home run needing, 100 loss team ever!

by xanthan on Feb 18, 2008 2:06 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
I love how it is mentioned that Molina is slow but he can swing effectively on hit and runs from the #4 spot.

Just what I always dreamed of, a #4 hitter that can make contact...

2002? I'm still not over 1993...

by brianando on Feb 18, 2008 2:06 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Oh god... Omar Vizquel is going to 575 bunts (combined drag and sacrifice... mostly drag, though) in 625 PAs this year, isn't he?

Oh god, I can already see it happening.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 2:07 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
I wonder if he'll do any of those Neifi Perez "What-The-Fuck-Did-You-Just-Do" bunts?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Feb 18, 2008 2:14 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Out of 575 bunts, he's bound to have what? Two, three-hundred of those?
He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 2:24 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
And the remaining bunts will be great bunts which Omar would have beat-out for hits had he not decided to slide and slow himself down.
Giants = Jack Crap.

by Woody Wins on Feb 18, 2008 4:42 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
It will be Bonds fault. Flemming, Radnich, Robinson and a slew of boobleheads in MSM are already blaming this years shitty season on Bonds. If it hadnt' been for Bonds, the Giants would have won more games, because they would have had money to build their farm system and sign better free agents.

Thats the company line this year. Which is beginning to piss me off to no end. Thats the theme.

"We suck and its Bonds Fault."

Fucking communists.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 6:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Fuck it Dude, let's go bowling.

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 8:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Scary
How good a comp the offense from the '85 Giants is, all the way to Brenly's team-leading 19 homers.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Feb 18, 2008 2:23 PM PST   0 recs

how about 1984?
Not as similar, no, but I want Crazy Crab.

by wcw on Feb 18, 2008 2:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
"Bengie Molina: Um, no. "

Current leader in the  "understatement of  2008"  category?  I always enjoy Shulman. I guess that qualifies me as a homer.

Other then that Omar can't possible hit any were above 7, even on this squad, until his OBP gets up to near Tony Gwynn's career batting average.  In the interest of spring training positivism I'll refrain from listing the number of 40 year old I've seen that can run well enough to play with 20 something's.

As for the concept in general they currently don't have the players for that type of ball. The have few but mostly not.  It annoys me that the front office figures the fan base definition of a "running/speed" team is lack of home runs.  That's it. It does not bode well for this season being anything more then 9 monkeys trying to hump a greased football - at the same time.

by daveinexile on Feb 18, 2008 2:26 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
What about Ortmeier? Doesn't he have pretty decent speed for a 1B?

If they call up Velez that will help as well.

I'm sure whoever has Jason Ellison would be willing to part with him? Me loves my speedy mediocre outfielders!

Giant Expectations

by UnleashTheGore on Feb 18, 2008 2:30 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Ellison's speed did not prevent him from being a horrible baserunner.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Feb 18, 2008 2:38 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Yeah, but can he play CF?
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Feb 18, 2008 3:52 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Adding racing wheels
Unless Durham hits the cover off the ball in ST, I'd like to see the Giants put him on the bench and let Velez play 2B. Frandsen plays 3rd.

I'd also like to see Winn move to 1B and let Lewis start in RF full-time. If Lewis fails, call up Nate.

I'd also hit Rowand #4 (and Benjie #5), just so he can run in front of Molina.

These three adjustments would make the Giants a much more legit running team, more interesting to watch and give us a better idea about some of the youngins':

Roberts/Davis
Velez
Winn
Rowand
Molina
Lewis (or Schierholtz)
Vizquel
Frandsen

My work here is done.

Hoping tk's recovery is faster than Raj going from first to third!

by Goofus on Feb 18, 2008 2:33 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Goofus, I am in love with the way you think. Seriously, it's kind of scaring me.
***

Succumb to the Enchanted t-shirt! Adopted dad of Minor Izzy

by hairball on Feb 18, 2008 2:39 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Now that's some audacity for hope
One ticket please!  It may be carnage but at least if putting our money were our mouth is. Besides carnage my be a foregone conclusion with year.

by daveinexile on Feb 18, 2008 2:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
I like the Velez at 2B and Frandsen at 3B idea but I do not care for the Winn at 1B idea.  I would prefer to platoon Schierholtz and Ortmeier at 1B and Lewis and Davis in LF with all three of Durham, Roberts, and Aurilia on the bench.  My lineup and bench would then be:

LineUp:
Lewis/Davis LF
Velez 2B
Schierholtz/Ortmeier 1B
Rowand CF
Winn RF
Molina C
Frandsen 3B
Vizquel SS

Bench:
Alfonzo C
Aurilia IF
Durham IF
Roberts OF
Ortmeier/Schierholtz 1B/OF
Davis/Lewis OF

Yeah, I would go with just 6 relievers (11 man pitching staff) and therefore 6 position player bench spots.

by giantsrainman on Feb 18, 2008 5:31 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Frandsen is a fraud. He is Wonder Bread False Hustle.

He has no plate discipline, so he draws few walks,  and a low OBP. He has no power. He has no speed. And he's a mediocre fielder at best. Basically Pedro Feliz without power and without a glove and without an arm.

He is a nepotism roster spot in the mold of Lance Niekro except Niekro had more pop. He is JT Snow without plate discipline, glove, or even power and about 50 percent of the cute-ass drawing power.

If you're MLB running a telethon for "physically challenged" infielders, Kevin's your boy. Frandsen is the poster child for the Giants Farms System Version of "Jerry's Kids".

Frandsen if he gets real hot, may hit .290 with no obp and no power. Just grand. Sure enough to make me forget about Barry Bonds.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 6:47 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Why is this diatribe in response to my post?  Did not Goofus also have Frandsen in his desired starting lineup?

by giantsrainman on Feb 18, 2008 7:00 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
I think it's just to diatribe you.
Coming to you from the Land of Many Beers

by WalrusMan on Feb 18, 2008 7:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Its my opinion of Frandsen, not you.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 8:43 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Way to kill the one thing I had to look forward to this season.

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 8:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Yeah. I know. But the truth will in fact, set you free.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 8:46 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
No, it will just make the Giants offense suck, even in my imagination.  A talented young 1b and 3b would set me free.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2008 9:02 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Finally, a soul who has been down the road of mediocrity with the Orange and Black before.  Thank you E.

by drysdalecousin on Feb 18, 2008 9:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Damn it.  I want Kevin Frandsen to be a star too.  I want to see 15- 18 HR's and .290 BA year after year.  Ain't gonna happen. He honestly does not have the tools to play successfully at this level.  Sure, stick him in there everyday at 3B in April and May.  By June you all will see.

by drysdalecousin on Feb 18, 2008 10:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
I hear he's on the verge of finding the swagger though.

...which means squat unless the swagger is a magic elixir that turns the drinker into Chase Utley.

Adopted Giant: Travis Denker. Good?

by scotterduder on Feb 19, 2008 12:14 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
But cousin, if he's stuck playing the wrong position, on a very bad team, and does anywhere from average on down, he'll be blamed by people like you for not performing. How about we give him a real chance, and at his best position? Surely you can't prefer Ray Durham to Kevin? And if, as a 2B, he hits .290 with little power, isn't he at least a decent placeholder until Nick Noonan makes his first All-Star Game?
"I think I'd trust Amy Winehouse to guard my bag of coke before I'd trust Sabes to build my offense." -Dan Szymborski, Baseball Think Factory

by Lyle on Feb 19, 2008 2:34 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Rolling around with an inflatable Straw man
All that being said about Frandsen he is still a better bet then anther 500+ A.B.'s from Durham in `08. On both sides of the ball. And that is the real "force" behind play Frandsen. The sooner Frandsen flames out the sooner  Ocha, or Velez, or who ever gets their shot to see if the can provide something of value on the MLB level. If , some how, Frandsen surprises then I think we are all happy.

by daveinexile on Feb 19, 2008 10:35 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Frandsen and Ortmeier are the future of this team. How dare you!
Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 18, 2008 10:50 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
Please allow me to hold out a grain of hope for Kevin Frandsen.

Last winter Kevin stated his goal as getting more pitches he could drive.  It is possible that by September he had begun to accomplish that goal.

In the season's final month, Kevin's pitches per at bat took a noticeable jump -- as did his OPS, to over .900 for the month.

by sharksrog on Feb 19, 2008 6:49 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
I still have hope for Franny, too. He's going to need to not hit the ball on the ground as much as he did in 2007. I haven't glanced at his stats, but at one point in '07 he was hitting half or almost half of his batted balls in play on the ground. That's not good.

by xanthan on Feb 19, 2008 6:56 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
For the sake of discussion, I just looked up his GB% for 2007. It was 52.9% which is significant. That's a GB% of Ichiro proportions, expect Frandsen doesn't have Ichiro's crazy speed to get on base.

by xanthan on Feb 19, 2008 7:00 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Adding racing wheels
The difference being that Ichiro will get over 200 hits and Frandsen will ground into "countless" double plays.

Last year Frandsen hit into a double play about once  every 15 ABs. Ichiro hit into one double play every 347 AB.

Dood hit into 20 Dps in a measely 264 ABs
Ichiro hit into 2 Dps in 695 Abs

Its one thing to be a pretty good AAA player amongst the AAA generation (about a 3 year span which only includes players playing in the PCL or IL).  It is quite another to be a competent major leaguer when competing against the best players of every generation, (about a 15 year span which includes all the best players from every level.

That is why it is no surefire thing. Major Leaguers don't cycle through every 1-3 years like they do in the different levels of the minors.  That is something the Giants haven't mangaged to figure out in any empirical sense at least.

Pitching is different and easier to project. A hitter gets maybe 4 ABs per game to establish a rhythm or pattern for evaluation purposes. A pitcher gets at least that many chances per inning. Oversimplified explanation, but you get the idea.

by E Ticket on Feb 19, 2008 8:37 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: 1985 Cardinals?
More like the 1905 Cardinals.

But Aaron "Warrior Spirit" Rowand is no Homer "Doc" Snoot.

by chefasaurus on Feb 18, 2008 2:43 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
I love all the lines we're getting from beatwriters and sports talk radio hosts that basically amount to: "Well, now that Bonds is gone, the team can start playing baseball the RIGHT way!" I'm not a Bonds homer, but he definately played the game right.

Oh, and the assertion that Molina is a great contact hitter made me chuckle. I didn't know Tony Gwynn was playing catcher for us.

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 2:44 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
No. But he did beat Molina in a pie eating contest

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 6:48 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
On a technicality. Who knew they would disqualify Molina for accidentally eating his glove?

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 8:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
kind of what goofus posited earlier, but yeah, this strategy would look a lot better a couple of years from now with Velez, Burriss, and Lewis (who really, should probably be in the lineup now-- screw the Roberts/Rajai platoon in left, play Lewis there) in in the lineu.  Plugging those guys into this lineup, plus maybe a 1B who can mash a little bit and a catcher who isn't quite as slow as Molina and yeah, this strategy might have a chance.  maybe.  in a lucky year.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2008 2:51 PM PST   0 recs

Re: It burns....
or how about a catcher with an OBP over .300?  In a speedy lineup, old Kendell or even DP Pierzynsniskiiji might fit well.  Hack and plod Molina in the cleanup spot is a HORRIBLE fit.

by kennv on Feb 18, 2008 3:01 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
i don't think there's anyone in the world who would disagree with you that any molina hitting cleanup is just a bad idea.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2008 3:19 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Actually its a good time to get up and go take a piss.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 6:49 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
I don't know. Is AJ available? What would it take to get him from the Sox in trade? They said they might be willing to trade major leaguers for prospects....
I got one word for you: "youneverknow"

by senorvegas on Feb 18, 2008 10:03 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Can Velez catch?
Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 18, 2008 10:51 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: It burns....
Searching for silver linings.
1)Running into a lot of outs will shorten the games.
2)The old-timers are more likely to injure themselves running, leading to a quicker transition to playing the youngsters.

by NearestNorwich on Feb 18, 2008 2:54 PM PST   0 recs

Speed
SF is not only talking about SBs but running the bases aggressively: stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples, hit and running, going from first to third, scoring from second on a hit or from first on an extra base hit. After watching SF play station to station the last few seasons it should be exciting. Especially since SF was terrible in one run games last season.

And then there is speed from the defensive side: the ability to run down balls, cut off balls in the alley etc

by wilriv21 on Feb 18, 2008 2:54 PM PST   0 recs

Re: Speed
Its going to be hard to stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples when you can't hit the ball to begin with.

by xanthan on Feb 18, 2008 2:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

SF has some decent hitters
The first five in the order should do well:
  • Roberts is a platoon player and should be played that way. Has nice OBP and can steal
  • Frandsen is a solid OBP and can handle the bat well
  • Winn had 42 doubles and hit .300
  • Rowand is a perfect fit in the line-up mixing extra base power with base running ability
  • Molina is money
More concerned with the Ortmeiers, Vizquels and the guy who plays 3b.

by wilriv21 on Feb 18, 2008 3:20 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: SF has some decent hitters
In comparison to other team's first five hitters, I doubt that the Giants' first five hitters will do well.

by sharksrog on Feb 19, 2008 6:50 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Speed
Considering the Giants are running essentially the same team out there that they did last year, why do you suppose they didn't go for the extra base last year? No team purposely turns a double back into a single. They CAN'T.

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 3:40 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Yes We Can!
SF will be stressing the running game and hitting situationally from the onset of spring training. The coaching staff has added Roberto Kelly and Carney Lansford to assist the transformation. No longer will the Giants be waiting for a HR but instead will stress taking the extra base and moving runners into scoring position. As a longtime baseball fan I have always enjoyed this brand of baseball - when it  works. And it can work if the Giants play solid fundamental baseball staring this spring. Si se puede!

by wilriv21 on Feb 18, 2008 3:55 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Mr. Optimism , let me buy you a beer.
Just not in that bar , OK?
NL West TempestTeapot...the AL doesn't care WHO you sign.

by victor frankenstein on Feb 18, 2008 4:37 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Yes We Can!
I really love your unwavering optimism and good will, Will, but I just can't agree with you. It's not that good modern baseball teams can't be built on speed and defense at the express expense of power with no regard for on base skills (I don't include pitching because that's a premium for EVERY team no matter what). It's that good modern baseball teams aren't built on speed and defense at the express expense of power with no regard for on base skills. It's because buiding a successful team this way is much, much more difficult than building a successful team with a premium on power. Even ignoring the fact that a good running team actually has to be, you know, fast (and the Giants ARE NOT), the "fundamental" key to building a team this way lies with OBP. As a rule baseball is a game of give and take between on base skills and power. If you have on base skills, you can afford having less power, and if you have more power you can afford having less on base skills, and you have both them your team OPS is .809 and you're the 2007 Boston Red Sox. Since the Giants don't have power the key is getting that shiny, shiny team OBP. If the Giants are going to run at the expense of power (again, ignoring the fact that they aren't particularly fast once you get past Davis/Roberts), they NEED to have a high team OBP. Which makes perfect sense: to really take advantage of running the bases without power, you actually have to be on base more than the other guy.

The Giants team OPS last year was .709. Like a good "run first no power" team, their team SLG was under .400 (.387). You want the OBP to be able to get the OPS even remotely close to .800. We'll say .770 (which, btw, was the team OPS of the worst team in baseball last year by record). The Giants team OBP, even proposing the SLG goes up to an even .400 (why? no good reason), has to improve by AT LEAST 50 points to get where we want to be.

To even OPS .770, in other words, the Giants team OBP has to exceed the team OBP of last year's World Series winning team. In order to play fundamental baseball, the Giants team OBP has to be better than the Red Sox. And we have to do that with Molina, Vizquel, Durham, and Aurilia all getting regular at bats (none of whom OBP'd higher than .305 last season). Goodie. I like our chances!

Fundamental baseball is a nice line, but it means nothing if your team can't hit. And mostly, our team can't hit.

He is Vengeance. He is the Knight. He is Dave Righetti. PRAY TO HIM!

by howtheyscored on Feb 18, 2008 5:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Getting on base is key
and moving the runner around the diamond is tantamount if SF is going to succeed. This is where the genius of both Kelly and Lansford can improve the team dramatically. Will Clark was never known as a speedster yet was one of the best base runners I have ever seen - he knew when and how to run. Lansford should improve the Giants situational hitting and have the hitters spraying the ball all over the yard from line to line, hitting behind the runners and even the infamous productive outs. While I definitely want/expect SF to win, will not be too depressed if the 2008 team plays solid fundamental baseball and still plays below .500 ball.

by wilriv21 on Feb 18, 2008 6:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Getting on base is key
Lansford should improve the Giants situational hitting and have the hitters spraying the ball all over the yard from line to line, hitting behind the runners and even the infamous productive outs.
------------------------------------------------

You cannot "learn" to spray balls all over the field in the major leagues if you

  1. cannot recognize a pitch
  2. have no plate discipline
  3. have no prior experience in doing so
A hitting coaches primary purpose is to serve as a firewall between the manager and the unemployment line when not fetching the skipper beers.

I could go on, but I doubt you even understand the first three.

Go ahead be a fan. But there is no reason to spew ridiculous propaganda on behalf of San Francisco Baseball Associates LP and MSM.

Its clearly just a simple regurgitation of a poorly written "fill in the blanks" press releases that could have been written about any team in any league at any level at any time.

Hopefully most of the readers here know better than to take anything you write along these lines as anything other than what they are and you don't influence some kid who doesn't know any better.

by E Ticket on Feb 18, 2008 7:15 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Getting on base is key
I see the point you are trying to make, and like you, I enjoy good fundamental baseball. I think the problem lies in overestimating the influence of a coach in baseball. A hitting coach can help refine small mechanical flaws in a hitter's swing, and an aggressive base coach can take chances by sending runners more often, but very rarely can a non-pitching coach have an (immediate) dramatic effect on a player's skill set. It's up to the GM to field a team of players that compliment the organization's philosophy. Unfortunately, our GM is named Brian Sabean.

by KCDrummer82 on Feb 18, 2008 7:57 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Getting on base is key
As a hitter, Carney Lansford didn't walk nearly enough or hit with a lot of power.  Carney's strength was in not striking out often.

After Carney's first three seasons, his walks were nearly as high as his strikeouts.

by sharksrog on Feb 19, 2008 6:54 AM PST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Getting on base is key
If Kelly and Lansford are geniuses, they'll teach Molina to take enough walks to have an OBP over .315, transform Lewis into a fast baserunner into a high-percentage base-stealer, and milk one more good season out of Aurilia, Durham and Vizquel. The Giants will still score the least runs in the league.

Will Clark stole 67 bases in 115 tries. That's a success rate of 58 percent. When he got caught, he was taking a base runner and an out away from a #4 or #5 hitter in the lineup. Will Clark should not have run. Ever.

Southern California: Water thieves and Dodgers fans.

by jasomack on Feb 18, 2008 11:07 PM PST to parent up   0 recs

Running the bases.
In regards to Clark, did not say he was a base stealer but a base runner. Clark had the ability and knowledge of running the bases, as in going from 1st to 3rd, 2nd to home, 3rd to home. Clark knew when he could attempt to stretch a single into a double or a double into a triple. He knew when and if it was worth the risk to attempt the extra base. He knew how to cut the corner of the bag and if the fielder had a rag arm or was shading the line. Ever player should be so lucky.

One way to have Molina with a better OBP is to not let him wear down as season progresses. To improve his OBP to .315, you would like more walks I would prefer he get more hits. Give Molina a few more off days and keep him fresh and both his BA and OBP should improve. I can see Lewis working with Kelly and improving somewhat even though Freddie's instincts are not the best.

To milk one more season out of the old guys Lanny has a lot of work. I said he is a genius, might need a miracle worker. If the vets can contribute, buy into Bochy's program and hit situationally then SF should be competitive.

by wilriv21 on Feb 18, 2008 11:33 PM PST to parent up   0 recs